Tuesday, November 24, 2009

In which salient HealthCare talk ensues...

Cruising around the blogs, I landed at an interesting discussion @ Left Coast Rebel. His brief post is a solid effort to tell Conservatives to buck up, put on our thinking caps & keep fighting against ObamaCare. Good thoughts & good timing. Nice appetizer. The main course came in the comment section (as it so often does @ Get the Big Idea).
After much volley, one commenter says:

"You have already determined, since no one here ever says otherwise, that universal health care is an obligation of society for those who are young, poor, disabled, seniors, or veterans..."

...um, excuse me. But I couldn't let that stand. My response:

"I'll beg to differ with ya. Disabled, Seniors, Veterans absolutely!!

But the young? That's a PARENT's/FAMILY's responsibility. Do I sound crass? Perhaps. Would I allow an indigent child to go untreated? No, but there MUST be some consequence for PARENTS FAILING their RESPONSIBILITIES!! Trust me. I've worked with the indigent population [in several places] & here's what I heard, "I'll have as many kids as I want to. The gov'ment will take care of me. They can't tell me to stop!" Ver batim from a former client.

...I AM that parent who chooses NOT to purchase, go, play, do things in order that we fulfill OUR OBLIGATION to our own children & provide for them...We buy independent insurance, paying dearly for it (it's like a second house payment). Got that? It's MY OBLIGATION!!!! [Not society's.]

Nanny state mentality is partly what has gotten us into this mess - & this [HealthCare] bill wants to give us more of it...Give me a break, & pass the buck."

Then, the salient voice of a new friend elucidates the issue for all:

"There is no social contract to pay other people's bills. Obamacare is a government mandated system that is supposed to help less than 10% of our population by pushing us down the road to not only socialized medicine, but socialism in general. Unwanted obligations amount to indentured servitude. That is what you condemn us to, all for a small percentage of the population.

This is the same religious fervor that espouses the end of the world due to anthropogenic climate change [Global Warming]. We now know that is a hoax.

As usual, socialists pitch to the lowest common denominator with emotion rather than rationale. Most people in this country oppose this plan...Under the current legislation proposed, this would change just about everything in an effort to get people on the government dole. It's ludicrous...

...Traditionally people got medical insurance to protect against bankruptcy and destitution from a catastrophic illness or injury. It wasn't meant to pay for every little hang nail and stubbed toe. Medical insurance has in fact impeded the free market that we used have and has driven costs up.

Lastly, you cannot insure health. All of us will die eventually, no matter what care one has. The insurance only mitigates financial risk...at the expense of others. Spreading the risks out further, through one plan, will only serve to cause even more restrictions on service and quality in an effort to contain costs.

That is why you see in countries with a single payer system, after a certain age, the wait for services grows arithmetically and in some cases is infinite. The end result of Obamacare, if it passes, is that the fabian socialists finally push the cart of capitalism over the edge of the cliff, and they know it, too.

The end game is to reduce humans to the same level as farm animals."

The end.

How could I presume to say more?
~~~

24 comments:

Nickie Goomba said...

I agree. Families, churches, and community-based charities should be meeting the needs (not wants) of our needy. Government only makes things worse.

The Right Guy said...

@Susannah:
Thank you for the linkage, I appreciate it.

@Nickie Paisano:
Amen.

Susannah said...

Nickie~ Absolutely. Communities (esp. churches) have abdicated the responsibility of meeting people's needs - all too happy to let the Gov't. take over. Honestly, we as a society (collectively) have been 'all too happy' to allow it. Thanks for putting it in writing.

RG~ You betcha! Thanks for coming by.

DD2 aka Debonair Dude said...

Happy Thanksgiving to you Susannah and to you all.

Grandma J said...

Perfect explanation of what health insurance is for. I know so many people who have all the latest gadgets and high end electronics and cars...but no health insurance! It seems to be a multi- generational attitude too.

Happy Thanksgiving Susannah....I'ms so thankful for your troops, especially those currently serving overseas like my SIL.

I've Had It With Mr. Obama. said...

OBAMA said, in his Cairo speech: "I know, too, that Islam has always been a part of America 's story.””

Dear Mr. Obama:

Were those Muslims that were in America when the Pilgrims first landed?
Funny, I thought they were Native American Indians.

Were those Muslims that celebrated the first Thanksgiving day? Sorry again, those were Pilgrims and Native American Indians.

Can you show me one Muslim signature on the United States Constitution?
Declaration of Independence ? Bill of Rights? Didn't think so.

Did Muslims fight for this country's freedom from England ? No.

Did Muslims fight during the Civil War to free the slaves in America ? No, they did not. In fact, Muslims to this day are still the largest traffickers in human slavery. Your own 'half brother' a devout Muslim still advocates slavery himself, even though muslims of Arabic descent refer to black muslims as "pug nosed slaves." Says a lot of what the Muslim world really thinks of your family's "rich Islamic heritage" doesn't it Mr. Obama?

Where were Muslims during the Civil Rights era of this country? Not
present. There are no pictures or media accounts of Muslims walking side by side with Martin Luther King Jr.. or helping to advance the cause of Civil Rights.

Where were Muslims during this country's Woman's Suffrage era? Again, not present. In fact, devout Muslims demand that women are subservient to men in the Islamic culture. So much so that often they are beaten for not wearing the 'hajib' or for talking to a man that is not a direct family member or their husband. Yep, the Muslims are all for women's rights aren't they?

Where were Muslims during World War II? They were aligned with Adolf Hitler. The Muslim grand mufti himself met with Adolf Hitler, reviewed the troops and accepted support from the Nazi's in killing Jews

Finally Mr. Obama, where were Muslims on Sept. 11th, 2001? If they weren't flying planes into the World Trade Center , the Pentagon or a field in Pennsylvania killing nearly 3,000 people on our own soil, they were rejoicing in the middle east. No one can dispute the pictures shown from all parts of the Muslim world celebrating on CNN, Fox News, MSNBC and other news networks that day. Strangely, the very "moderate" Muslims who's asses you bent over backwards to kiss in Cairo , Egypt on June 4th were stone cold silent post 9-11. To many Americans, their silence has meant approval for the acts of that day.

And THAT, Mr. Obama, is the "rich heritage" Muslims have here in America

Anonymous said...

Dear President Obama:
You are the thirteenth President under whom I have lived and unlike any of the others, you truly scare me.
You scare me because after months of exposure, I know nothing about you.
You scare me because I do not know how you paid for your expensive Ivy League education and your upscale lifestyle and housing with no visible signs of support.
You scare me because you did not spend the formative years of youth growing up in America and culturally you are not an American.
You scare me because you have never run a company or met a payroll.
You scare me because you have never had military experience, thus don't understand it at its core.
You scare me because you lack humility and 'class', always blaming others.
You scare me because for over half your life you have aligned yourself with radical extremists who hate America and you refuse to publicly denounce these radicals who wish to see America fail.
You scare me because you are a cheerleader for the 'blame America ' crowd and deliver this message abroad.
You scare me because you want to change America to a European style country where the government sector dominates instead of the private sector.
You scare me because you want to replace our health care system with a government controlled one.
You scare me because you prefer 'wind mills' to responsibly capitalizing on our own vast oil, coal and shale reserves.
You scare me because you want to kill the American capitalist goose that lays the golden egg which provides the highest standard of living in the world.
You scare me because you have begun to use 'extortion' tactics against certain banks and corporations.
You scare me because your own political party shrinks from challenging you on your wild and irresponsible spending proposals.
You scare me because you will not openly listen to or even consider opposing points of view from intelligent people.
You scare me because you falsely believe that you are both omnipotent and omniscient.
You scare me because the media gives you a free pass on everything you do.
You scare me because you demonize and want to silence the Limbaughs, Hannitys, O'Relllys and Becks who offer opposing, conservative points of view.
You scare me because you prefer controlling over governing.
Finally, you scare me because if you serve a second term I will probably not feel safe in writing a similar letter in 8 years.

Pat said...

"We're no longer a Christian nation." - President Barack Obama, June 2007
"America has been arrogant." - President Barack Obama
"After 9/11, America didn't always live up to her ideals."- President Barack Obama
"You might say that America is a Muslim nation."- President Barack Obama, Egypt 2009

Thinking about these and other statements made by the man who wears the title of president. I keep wondering what country he believes he's president of.

The Right Guy said...

@Pat: Sure Muslims are part of American history. Just go to Vesey and Church Street in Manhattan, Shanksville PA, or the Pentagon.

robert thomas and his thoughts said...

I hope the conservatives know too that we can't wait for the Messiah to come. Vote for the more conservative candidate,every chance you get, and don't wait for Mr. or Ms. Perfect to be on the ballot. McCain wasn't great but Iran sure wouldn't be working on a nuclear bomb right now and our troops wouldn't be left hanging in Afghanistan if McCain was in office instead of what we have now. . From here on, vote as if your child's life depends on it because it probably will.

So the First Family threw a “State” dinner for the Premier of India. Oh well, I didn’t find anything particularly extraordinary about the First Lady’s dress and the President looked a tad uncomfortable in his tux. James Bond he ain’t.
I’m sure all the unemployed people who watched TV coverage of “Michelle and Barry’s Super Terrific Happy Hour,” while eating Spaghetti-O’s out of a can, were soooooo thrilled that First Lady “M” and Her Big Butt looked so fabulous in that *&^^%$# hideous dress. In fact she looks like Patrick Ewing in drag
Please, please, someone get Michelle on What Not To Wear. Let Stacy and Clinton have at her! Give up the vegetable garden (I’m surprised she didn’t show up in overalls and a straw hat). If she wants to be an example to millions, show the world people can learn to choose the right clothes for the right occasions.

Anonymous said...

My personal favorite is how the media is saying that the bill extends coverage to all. Wrong! It mandates everyone get insurance. I don't know how in the world one can make the argument that this is the intention of the constitution.

Jim said...

"Anonymous" cowers in self-admitted fear like a small, ignorant child cowers from the imaginary monsters under his bed.

Anonymous claims that "after months of exposure", he knows nothing about President Obama. Then he proceeds to assert in 377 words all the things he apparently "knows" about Obama.

Anonymous can only "know nothing" if he chooses to remain ignorant. Obama has written two books, one an autobiography, the other about his political thinking.

Hundreds of books have been written about Obama, books authored by people favorable, neutral and unfavorable to him. Read some. Thousands of magazine and newspaper articles have been written about him by all kinds of sources. Read some.

Did you know that John McCain was born in Latin America and did not settle in the United States until he was 15? Obama was born in the United States and although he lived in other countries (like McCain), he resided in the US from the age of 10.

"You scare me because I do not know how you paid for your expensive Ivy League education and your upscale lifestyle and housing with no visible signs of support." I worked odd jobs and got scholarships and loans to put myself through college. Obama was obviously a bright student. What evidence do you have to show he didn't do the same. As for upscale lifestyle, that is your description, but he was a lawyer and most lawyers have higher than average incomes. So what's your point?

"You scare me because you have never run a company or met a payroll." Did Reagan? McCain?

"You scare me because you lack humility and 'class', always blaming others." Your guess, totally unsubstantiated.

"You scare me because you are a cheerleader for the 'blame America ' crowd and deliver this message abroad." Your opinion (or Hannity's) Most people disagree.

"You scare me because you want to change America to a European style country where the government sector dominates instead of the private sector." Your opinion, not supported by facts.

"You scare me because you want to replace our health care system with a government controlled one." Currently over 60% of Americans have health care from government-based systems. Why you think that profit-incented healthcare is more sublime than one accountable to the people is surprising.

More follows...

Jim said...

"You scare me because you prefer 'wind mills' to responsibly capitalizing on our own vast oil, coal and shale reserves." These "vast" resources are not infinite and whether or not you agree with global warming, they do harm the environment.

"You scare me because you want to kill the American capitalist goose that lays the golden egg which provides the highest standard of living in the world." Which begs the question: Why did he appoint Geithner as Sec Treas and reconfirm Bernanke as Fed Chair, when both are products of Goldman Sachs, the epitome of capitalism?

"You scare me because your own political party shrinks from challenging you on your wild and irresponsible spending proposals." Lincoln, Nelson, Bayh, Landrieu and other Democrats in the Senate and House notwithstanding. "Wild and irresponsible"? Your opinion.

"You scare me because you will not openly listen to or even consider opposing points of view from intelligent people." Unsupported by the evidence. To not accept Republican views does not mean to not listen to them. To the contrary, Republicans absolutely REFUSE to make any concessions or compromises. They demand compromises and then refuse to vote for them. No integrity.

"You scare me because you falsely believe that you are both omnipotent and omniscient." An inane statement pulled out of your bowels.

"You scare me because the media gives you a free pass on everything you do." This has GOT to be a joke or proves definitively that you refuse to read.

"You scare me because you demonize and want to silence the Limbaughs, Hannitys, O'Relllys and Becks who offer opposing, conservative points of view." There is a great difference between "opposing, conservative points of view" and flat out falsehoods. Obama has no problems with the former; he will refute the latter.

"You scare me because you prefer controlling over governing." Your opinion, disputed by most people.

Anonymous is scared because he hates. Because he hates, he chooses to remain ignorant. Because he's ignorant he's scared.

Vicious circle.

Penelope Stout said...

Be nicer Jim. Anonymous is expressing an opinion about a public figure. You end your own opionions with an ad hominem attack calling anonymous hateful and ignorant. Listen to Thoreau: "The only way to tell the truth is to speak with kindness. Only the words of a loving man can be heard."

Jim said...

Penelope, thank you for your response and request.

I don't idolize President Obama. There are aspects of some of his policies that I disagree with.

It's hard to be nice when responding to a post such as that by Anonymous. When it comes to President Obama, there is certainly no nice on this blog. I believe my opinion of Anonymous' post is accurate.

Anonymous admits he's scared. It's obvious that he hates Obama. His post reflects his ignorance. Therefore, I don't believe my response qualifies as an ad hominem attack.

Susannah said...

I've had it/Anon/Pat~ Welcome! & thanks for your thoughts; so glad you joined us. As you see, your thoughts have added interest & dynamism to our discussion here!! ;)

Have you ever thought about starting a blog? You'd be a useful addition to the texture of the blog-sphere...think on it...

Come back any time. (Do consider telling us your name next time.)

Right Guy~ Dead on.

RobertThom~ "From here on, vote as if your child's life depends on it because it probably will."
You bet your sweet tootsies it does...and you bet we will. btw, thanks for the follow.

Jim, dear~ Seems to me that you instantly dismiss a lot of
Anon's point as 'your opinion, not supported by facts,' or 'inane statement,' etc. The irony is that he/she could very plausibly make the exact same assessment of your assertions, esp. the one that seems to be your favorite: "most people disagree."

Penelope~ Thanks for stopping by. Glad you came. As for Jim being nice, well, he's plenty nice, I think (compared to some other bloggers) - but he gets very cranky when people don't roll over & acquiesce to Mr. O'CommieBama & the wonderful agenda he has for our nation.

I think he believes if he tries to belittle people & make them feel stupid for not being able to discuss their political opinions in relation to the Theory of Relativity or Quantum Physics, that their views aren't valid. In the real world (where most of us live), some people just have basic common sense & know pressing danger when they sense it in their gut, the hairs on the backs of their necks raise up, or they can simply smell it. And this is a danger that reeks.

Do come back any time.

Jim, dear~ "When it comes to President Obama, there is certainly no nice on this blog."

As I said earlier, you bet your sweet tootsies, not! When he does/says/has an agenda item that engenders something 'nice' here, you'll see it (check out the post 'He can be taught' back in April, or 'Forward we Go' back in Nov. 08 - you know, the ones I linked for James last week). Until then, I'll use this space & the time I devote to it to hold this man accountable for the wreckage he's trying to make of my nation.

The Malcontent said...
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The Malcontent said...
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The Malcontent said...

Obama's Health Care reform is going down the tubes and fast.... While many Liberals/Democrats are blaming the Republicans, that is just because they have always blamed Republicans, nothing new there... There is no other play in the game book. But it's not working this time, because the public is onto them and know that they have the largest majorities in quite some time.
Obama's "health care reform" (whatever the heck it's being called now) is failing rapidly, and with it so is his public approval. The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Wednesday shows that ONLY 26% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. But he thinks he is the King! And the country will continue to suffer, the economy with it, until people wake up to the simple truth, we are a Socialist Nation now and that’s that!

But, that's just my opinion.

The Gray Headed Brother said...

Yawn

Susannah said...

Mal~ "Obama's Health Care reform is going down the tubes and fast..."
I SO hope you're right about that! Keep the pressure on.

"we are a Socialist Nation now and that’s that!"
Heaven forbid...I'm not giving up so easy.

GHB~ Didn't your Mama teach you to cover your mouth when you do that?

I'll bet she taught you better manners...

Debbies Choice said...

Susannah said...

Mal~ "Obama's Health Care reform is going down the tubes and fast..."
I SO hope you're right about that! Keep the pressure on.

"we are a Socialist Nation now and that’s that!"
Heaven forbid...I'm not giving up so easy.




But he's correct, like it or not we are.
Look at what Obama has done to our Banks, industries, corporations, and now healthcare!

BetteJo said...

I was going to comment on your post Susannah - but after reading all the comments - I think I forgot what it was about! :)

I just love it how you inspire just dialog!

Susannah said...

BetteJo~ "...but after reading all the comments - I think I forgot what it was about!"
I am SO glad I'm not the only one who does that!

"I just love it how you inspire just dialog!"
It's the people who come here who get the conversation going! I'm grateful to see it happen...fun, isn't it? ;)